Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Jun 05, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

The last section, we left off on Elementalists in PvE transfering to PvP while not altering their builds. This part will start with warriors and their ability to consistently apply pressure, as well as finishing the job.

Warriors Being Warriors. Getting Smarter, and Doing There Jobs

A Warrior in PvE has 2 main jobs. Hold the line, and kill his target as fast as he can. It sounds simple, until you are face to face with a gaggle of mesmers using domination magic and they have warriors of their own, and 2 monks. Sounds familiar? You have just been overran by multiple groups because the warrior didn't do his job.Which part you ask? He didn't hold the line.

Holding the line does not consist of chasing the monk into the next group. Holding the line consists of not letting yourself get pulled by the constant kiting. Cripple or kill, body block or pull. Never get overzealous and chase the monks. Best bet is to wait for him to stand close to you, or be in a position that you can run straight for him. Every monk finds himself exposed, partly due to their warriors being kited. We can't avoid the kiting, but we can lessen the exposure that kiting causes to our teammates.

This irrevocable truth applies in both PvE and PvP. So, your warriors primary job is...HOLD THE LINE!!!

Builds for warriors vary, depending on what his team wants to acomplish. Tank or killer, his job is still the same,however. Pressure or Spike, that still doesn't change. Aggro is consistant with the line in all cases, so that won't make a difference in the warrior's overall job.

2 warriors in the front, must realize that holding the line means sticking together, as well as not obscenely overextending from the monks/healers of your group. In PvP, this holds severly more weight than in PvE, since PvE mobs seem less intense through the majority of the game content. In the case of splits, warriors may be split up, and paired with another melee type. This still doesn't change the job description in the least, though some feel it does. Reference to my previous thread to see my take on player positioning.

4 on 4 split squads have a smaller version of the team scenario, making the warrior to still have to hold the line. If the monk kites you away from your team and you leave them to the mercy of the other 3 members, pray they can hold, or that you kill the monk you're chasing, because if you can't...

MIDLINE PLAY MECHANICS

Paragons,Rangers, and to a lesser degree, assassins, deal in this area. Case in point,Ranger cripples a caster with a poison arrow. The Assassin leaps on the caster with a hex that shodwsteps him to the target.Upon attacking, the caster blinds the sin, only to have [skill=card]Shroud of Silence[/skill] thrown on him and the blind removed from the sin by the Ranger using [skill=card]Mending Touch[/skill] after closing the gap with [skill=card]Natural Stride[/skill]. This spells trouble for that caster if he is overextended from his monks. The midline did its job. Move in too deep into the midline, and this is what one should expect. Cohesive teamwork is the key to victory.

Next, kiting to victory.

Update:6/11/07

Upon reading the posts of my fellow guru posters,I will elaborate upon the concept of holding the line, from both a warrior's and a team afronted effort.

Warriors, in most cases being 2 warriors, or a variation of melee classes(I.E. Warrior/Dervish or lesser variations of Warrior/Assassin or Dervish/Assassin)-the job of holding the line can be placed in an example as follows.

In an 8 man team, 2 warriors engage an encrouching mob of 6 consisting of a monk,an orders necro([skill=card]Order of Pain[/skill]), and 4 warriors. To effectively hold the line, 1 of 2 things must NOT occur.

1) "Warrior 1 is attacking the Blue Toungued Hecket!"
2) "Warrior 1 is attacking the Blue Toungued Hecket!"
"Warrior 2 is attacking the Blue Toungued Hecket!"

If this occurs in your group, more than likely the warrior types are in the backfield beating on your casters. This is the case in most teams and even in Hench/hero groups.However, in the later groups case they run on the "Point/Kill Philosophy"-which means they attack what you attack. Human players have no such lack of intelligence to explain why they continuosly and consistantly do this.

In a balanced team, which is most often the form of a PvE team/PUG, 2 warriors,1 Ranger,1 Necromancer(MM prefered) 1 Elementalist(Fire more than likely), 2 monks, and an extra player of choice(any class) will be in the team. If the warriors chase the monk,who's job is it to hold the line against 4 encrouching warriors??? The extra player? Maybe the ranger?

The fact is that their was never a line to hold,since the warriors never established a cutoff point(I.E. A Line) to begin with. Even when the opposing monk goes down like a sack of potatoes, the warriors are not doing their job.

The warriors should try to draw initial aggro, meaning they should have intercepted the oncoming 4 warriors as the team followed up into position. This would establish a natural line of conflict from which the rest of the team can orchestrate the attack. Upon creating this line of conflict, the job of taking the monk down falls on 2 other characters, not the warriors. The ranger would be responsible for the monk, since he has the best chance of inflicting damage and/or interupting the monk's influence on its team. This also can be assisted by the extra player, if the ranger is having trouble taking down the monk.

On a team perspective of holding the line, as the warriors engage the charging adversaries, the elementalist should be laying down heavy cover fire to back up the warriors. I won't call out any specific spells to hurl at your enemies. Micro managing an elementalist's bar should have occured before the team left.

Upon taking the monk down, the necromancer does his raising minions from the dead thing, bolstering the team's front line with more attackers. With the addition of minions on the frontline, the overall damage being done by the frontline melee attackers and the elemenetalist far outweigh the healing power of 1 monk. This being the case, the first fight should be the hardest.

In the case of multiple mob attacks,or overaggroing as it is more popularly known, the line becomes more of a perimeter, but in both cases, it is a constantly moving entity with a life of its own. What must be done in this situation is that a team must know when to give ground as well as prioritize targets of importance. Warriors still must hold back the encrouching melee attackers as best they can while the other members of the team do thier jobs. Look for opennings in the enemy's line in order to punch through, attack a priority target, and proceed to back out of enemy territory(I.E. Strike the monk/caster, then back out to assist team members who are in trouble.

Always watch your own monks and pay attention to if they are being heavily attacked. Also, look for casters who are engaging in heavy kiting, because if they are always kiting, they can't be casting. If casters can't cast spells, the end is rather academic.

Last on the Holding The Line agenda, what to do when the MM dies.

If the MM dies, you ignore the minions and continue attacking the enemies. Rogue minions are just as much a danger to the enemy as they are to you, and thus, still make up your offense. Don't freeze up like Han Solo in carbonite when the MM or another caster dies, respond fast, res the fallen and keep the fight up. Monks don't res during battle, so don't look to them to do it. If the monks and the MM dies during a confrontation, or a withdrawl before a wipeout, the MM should be ressed first if you have a hard res. Hard res spells consist of [skill=card]Rebirth[/skill],[skill=card]Resurrection Chant[/skill],[skill=card]Restore Life[/skill],etc. If it's a signet that you have, then res your monk that has a res spell first,and he/she will then try to res the MM in order to raise minions from your allies corpses. Morbid,yes,effective, definitely.

Bryant Again · Jun 05, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

When are you overran by "multiple groups"? That sounds more like someone overaggroing than anything.

Edit: You may also want to show them how to hold the line. Just staying up there with the enemy isn't going to work, the AI causes them to cast/run past them (unless this was shown in a previous guide, in which case nevermind, heh).

karlnaylor · Jun 07, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Edit: You may also want to show them how to hold the line. Just staying up there with the enemy isn't going to work, the AI causes them to cast/run past them (unless this was shown in a previous guide, in which case nevermind, heh).

Seconded. Mobs do have a nasty habit of running straight past me and knocking Alesia's head in. And the ranged don't even bother with the running part. They just ignore the heavy bit of metal I'm swinging at their faces, and keep shooting over my head.

clawofcrimson · Jun 07, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

there is an excellent (unmatched) guide on tanking in the 'guide' section.

while a bit outdated, this still holds some xcellent info.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ing-id1982.php